Comments on Life On Gold Plates: Knowledge, Expectations, and Reactions to Difficul...

Part of me wanted to be naive, erase certain new i...

2009-09-16T14:58:11.124-06:00

Part of me wanted to be naive, erase certain new information I felt I'd been given, and go back to that testimony that seemed so safe and bright and good.

Yeah, this is an understandable reaction. Things are always nicer, at least initially, in the Garden. And, we all get thrust out of it in one way or another eventually. And this happens with our marriages, our relationships with others, our relationship with God, our intellectual relationship with the world, etc. Everything starts out bright and hopeful, but there's always a Fall of some sort.

We can get back to the tree of life, of course, but not through the angel with the sword. You have to take the long way around, and that involves navigating mists of darkness, dirty rivers, and jeering fingers from the combination shopping mall/brothel/amusement park/academy that is the Great and Spacious building.

there is seemingly little scriptural evidence that women are equal to men to mind, spirit, worth.

Well, the irony of a man aiming to answer this question doesn't escape me. So, use at your own risk, your mileage may vary.

Personally, when I read the scriptures, I don't really see "men," I just see "people." I think we may ask too much in ancient texts to see women's perspectives as fairly represented--but, that's a failing of the era, not a failing on God's part. And, men and women are really in the same boat--we're all lost, all fallen, all "less than the dust of the earth," etc.

Women get it worse, I suspect, simply because of the power imbalances inherent in a telestial world. But, it's worth remembering that most of the poor and the meek that the prophets are always championing (e.g., most of the Old Testament) included men and women who were likewise victimized by the power imbalances of the old world. And, widows and the fatherless got particular attention--because they didn't have a male defender against the rapacity of the telestial world.

As I said elsewhere, the gospel is everywhere and always Good News. If it is being used--or if we are using it against ourselves--to deliver Bad News, then we have not understood it or are misusing it. Everything is coming up roses; it is all much better than we are inclined to think or imagine.

(The only bad news is that we are weak and sinners--but, that ought not to be news; we ought to have recognized it long ago, gospel or no!)

I also have extraordinary difficulty attending the temple and seeing women as in any way inferior. "All are alike unto God," the Book of Mormon tells us, including "male and female" (2 Nephi 22:26). It is hard to gainsay anything that blunt upon which the scripture insists at such length: race, color, sex, covenant status, etc; any other scripture read otherwise is either a misinterpretation, or an error on the part of fallible men, scribes, or redactors.

As for God creating our heart--I suppose he had a role, but as Elder Maxwell and many others have pointed out, our minds and hearts--our selves--are really the only things we genuinely have to give God. Everything else is a gift from him anyway; ourselves, however, are co-eternal with him, something which was not created or made, "neither indeed can be."

The Little Drummer Boy was right--in a sense, the heart is all we have to give that's ultimately meaningful.

Em: the first bit of advice (and of course this is...

2009-09-16T14:16:13.941-06:00

Em: the first bit of advice (and of course this is pretty absurd, because I'm a guy after all) is that you, as a child of God (something that has not been questionable despite its ambiguity in historic Mormon discourse) can confidently trust your inspiration regarding your personal status with God, and don't need any priesthood-holding men and so forth to assure you of your worthiness any more than a man would. I personally don't believe there will be something like eternally divine sexism, though sexism itself may not be something that disappears in the eternities, but may be something we eternally strive to overcome as any other challenge of progression, etc. but I may be something of a heretic on that point, who knows. It's probably easier for me to speculate about since I am not directly affected in the same way you are in the "here and now."

Moreover, there is something to be said for "experiential knowledge," which seems to be something we can't gain by proxy. (You might be interested to read Sheldon Vanauken's A Severe Mercy by the way.) So some feminist theology has discussed the ability of a male Savior to suffer for both men and women, and the simple response to that seems to be that Christ suffered an "infinite" atonement, so it would seem that encompasses gender. I haven't paid enough attention to the debate or discussion, though, it hasn't been real high on the list I guess.

When you say God created your heart, by the way, it seems to be the heart is truly a co-creation, much the way it is with our immediate loved ones now. Our individuality is defined by community, which is funny to think about. I was talking to my wife the other night about how there is this big kick right now for "rights" and "individuality" and so forth, and not so much talk of individuality itself being contingent on its opposite, or on a conglommorate of individualities.

That was a strange tangent, sorry. Maybe Greg will have something more meaningful to say. I'll keep thinking about it, too, I am at work right now though and can't really give all the powers of my brain to the subject yet. :)

"If the scriptures are always confirming and prais...

2009-09-16T13:48:31.693-06:00

"If the scriptures are always confirming and praising what we think and do, I suspect we are not reading them properly."

Well put. Again, it is refreshing to read all of these thoughts. What I really love about this series is the confidence and faith associated with researching what could be fearful or sketchy historical details. I recently read Virginia Sorensen's "A Little Lower Than the Angels" for a faculty book group, and one of the most debated topics about polygamy was the seeming secrecy of it, particularly in Nauvoo. It struck new chords of discomfort in me, particularly concerning research. Part of me wanted to be naive, erase certain new information I felt I'd been given, and go back to that testimony that seemed so safe and bright and good.

But then I realized that my testimony needed to go this direction....I had reached the wall of my trust in God. In order to feel safer, brighter, and healthier in my journey to exaltation, I needed to find a new bridge back to that trust, WITH the new historical details. They needed places to fit, new shelves had to be built, even if I couldn't label them.

One question I might have that I know has no answer to (but something I would appreciate ideas or comments on) is how confident I can be as a woman that God loves me as much as he loves the other sex? I know God has gifted me with intellectual desires, leadership abilities, and understanding (I'm still a kid, of course, but I know He's allowing me to think and feel and want to be like Him), but there is seemingly little scriptural evidence that women are equal to men to mind, spirit, worth. Is this where I need to rely on the modern words of prophets (those pep talks at Relief Society and Young Women meetings at General Conference)? Do I just need to continue to grow and trust as much as I can with the uncertainty that all really will even out in the eternities? That things might NOT equal out after all, and that there is something divinely innate in sexism? What IF God doesn't really understand/love women as he understands/loves men? Does this make sense?

It seems very selfish and quite unlike me to ask something like this, like perhaps I should be satisfied to serve where and how I can and not expect or glory or equal standings or other such prideful awards, but these essays are bringing to light all my deepest and darkest questions/fears.

It feels good to unearth these thoughts, and I'd like to think that I'm consecrating my own brain to trust that God knows my heart, created my heart, and truly truly loves my heart like no one else can.

Someone told me once that God was a wild man and you can't put him in a box.