Comments on Life On Gold Plates: Blake Ostler on Causal Determinism

Yeah, this post was just me firing off a blast int...

2009-05-28T12:29:41.701-06:00

Yeah, this post was just me firing off a blast into space to see what I could get in return. It's interesting to think about.

I understand that determinism would be false accor...

2009-05-28T12:21:45.685-06:00

I understand that determinism would be false according to this argument if we assume relationships and rational thought to be the truth, but if determinsim is true than it would totally be compatible with what we consider rational thought, we would just be unable to comprehend it. Essentially, physical life would be illusory and based on our judgements, however preordained they might be...it's a viscious cycle, logically

I do not believe Ostler would argue that actions d...

2009-01-07T13:53:00.000-07:00

I do not believe Ostler would argue that actions do not lead to reactions, etc.

It seems to me that the commandments work because ...

2009-01-07T13:27:00.000-07:00

It seems to me that the commandments work because there are regularities in behavior, such as smoking causes cancer. In order for there to be regularities there needs to be causal determinism. Without causal determinism there can be no science. This even means quantum mechanics because one needs, ironically, causal mechanisms to get at the strange world of subatomic particles.

Interesting stuff, Clark. I hope it gets people th...

2009-01-07T13:18:00.000-07:00

Interesting stuff, Clark. I hope it gets people thinking. This is one reason I also recommend Ostler's books. Whether one agrees with him, he is sincere, and I think, responsible as well.

Consider the idea of a block universe. One state ...

2009-01-07T12:35:00.000-07:00

Consider the idea of a block universe. One state of affairs plus the laws of physics may not uniquely determine a future state of affairs. But it is the case that there is a truth about what the future state of affairs is. This isn't like dominoes since there isn't an "unbroken chain." Likewise one can't say your choices are decided earlier on in the sense Blake talks about it. Now Blake can (and has in his books) reformulated these criticisms to take into consideration the broader sense of determinism.

I also think that his (2) is problematic for other reasons I'll not get into.

Note that his (3) works with causal determinism but not a block universe since the block universe doesn't fully explain the actors actions. There is a sense of indetermination to the block universe.

Interesting stuff!The bottom line for me is that H...

2009-01-06T21:57:00.000-07:00

Interesting stuff!

The bottom line for me is that Heavenly Father has promised to get us back home if we will do what it takes to acquire the gift Holy Ghost--it will show all things what ye should do.

My experience with this promise, thus far, is this means all things of consequence.

If we don't acquire this gift then we are on our own.

I agree with what Blake says, but add that the Lord, if invited, will intervene in our lives in matters of consequence.

As I youth I went to a resort with some friends, drunk (not driving) we crashed head on into a car. It was a terrible accident. I walked away even though I was thrown some distance from the vette I was in. I had a prompting telling me I had been protected and it was time to get my life in order. Why did that happen? I believe this came about because of a promise from the Lord I'd obtained before being born. He knew that I would struggle because of the family I came to and extended grace to me, I responded years later, but it wasn't a sure thing. I had my agency and could have resisted until He would have stopped leaving the 99 to rescue me.

Is what happened to me determinism as Blake described it? I don't think so, but then again I'm a beginner in philosophy.

I don't understand what you mean clark. About the...

2009-01-06T21:18:00.000-07:00

I don't understand what you mean clark. About the the ones I stated not applying to other kinds.

Could you help me understand?

I should add that Blake thinks all determinism is ...

2009-01-06T17:32:00.000-07:00

I should add that Blake thinks all determinism is problematic. And for similar reasons. Just that the arguments above don't logically apply to other kinds.

I like to think that too Blair. In fact I believe...

2009-01-06T10:01:00.000-07:00

I like to think that too Blair. In fact I believe his love is unending an unconditional. But I still wonder; did the Father know who would return and who would fail prior to sending us away?

Big UP!

I prefer to think of God telling you goodbye but k...

2009-01-06T07:01:00.000-07:00

I prefer to think of God telling you goodbye but knowing he'd never give up at offering you a genuine relationship of love. So there is always hope there.

God being Omniscient looked me in the Eye's prior ...

2009-01-06T01:25:00.000-07:00

God being Omniscient looked me in the Eye's prior to sending me here (Earth), told me he loved me, and sent me on my way.

He would then have known whether or not I would ever make it home.

That's a very sad thought.

Your thoughts?

To be clear, Ostler is not an "indeterminist." He ...

2009-01-05T13:06:00.000-07:00

To be clear, Ostler is not an "indeterminist." He explains such in the comments on New Cool Thang, for any interested persons.

Clarified. Thx!

2009-01-05T13:03:00.000-07:00

Clarified. Thx!

just a note that the kind of determinism Blake is ...

2009-01-05T12:56:00.000-07:00

just a note that the kind of determinism Blake is talking about here is causal determinism and not necessarily true of all kinds of determinism.