Comments on Life On Gold Plates: Krista Tippett on Religious Dialogue and Curiosity...

Gus: To be frank your comment is a bit rambling ...

2009-11-25T13:03:29.858-07:00

Gus:

To be frank your comment is a bit rambling and a little less coherent than will enable a responsible reply.

So unless further clarification is forthcoming all I have to say is thanks for stopping by!

Comment on: Mormon Perception Management By the wa...

2009-11-25T11:49:13.894-07:00

Comment on: Mormon Perception Management
By the way, throughout your posting you chose to misidentify Robert Millet.
As long as The Mormons are committed to using unreliable narrators for spokespersons in the Religion Making Business there will be unreliable messages sent. Only the elect are able to see beyond the message sent to be divined as truth by the faithful.
http://scari.org/Mormon.Deconstruction.html

Robert Millet’s comment "We're in the religion making business," bothered me quite a bit. I'm sure the evangelicals used it as proof that it is a man-made religion.”
Even evangelicals fall prey to this axiom: From the beginning, through all time with strength in the loins, all religion is made by man –– it’s called the Religion Making Business.  And the apologetic Reply is:
“In a sense Millet is correct, we are indeed in the "religion making business" if by that he means we help shape and forge an idea of individuality and community, infusing life with meaning and direction, etc.”
Yes ‘infusing life with meaning and direction in the Religion Making Business.’
Was Millet speaking from the bowels of the Church? Was “the Religion Making Business” a gaff, or a mirror into the land of Oz?
Excuse me, but, Free Speech is fundamentally at odds with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. From the invention of Mormonism, free speech has tangled with the Latter-Day Saints, their prophet was executed for suppression of free speech; by the destruction of the Newspaper, “Expositor” his lot was cast, and it came to pass, General Joe was consumed by hubris, the arrogance of power.
Mormon message control is losing its grip, if you search: “Religion Making Business.” On the second page there is a curious posting by a blogger: Online cheap viagra » Blog Archive » Online cheap viagra http://www.bloggerofjared.com/2007/04/15/the-stillbirth-of-mormon-art/ Jettboy, aka, Blogger of Jared is also, "straight and narrow blog” http://jettboy.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html  So we have Mormon bloggers burying their posts in the Online cheap viagra » Blog Archives?  That’s one way to dump the Religion Making Business in the Mormon Utopia. Mormon hatred of communism seems ironical as the Mormon Glue is socialist, an idealized communitarian theocracy is socialist tipping to fascism.
http://scari.org/mormon-hapless.html
I appreciate you post and the concern you show for public relations in Branding Mormonism. Seems there could be a bit more care lavished on the message; the messenger will follow the script in the Religion Making Business.
Suing for peace with the Evangelicals will only lead to mischief and heartache.
GOK

No prob, Hunter, thanks for the conversation. It's...

2009-11-13T16:01:36.095-07:00

No prob, Hunter, thanks for the conversation. It's nice to hear back on some of these blog posts.

Funny, ok, I understand what you mean, Bhodges and...

2009-11-13T14:36:11.330-07:00

Funny, ok, I understand what you mean, Bhodges and another anon.

My understanding of what Millet was talking about is that mainstream Christianity is much older than the LDS Church. They shouldn't have a double standard when it comes to comparing our two traditions. Because the LDS sources and history are relatively new, they can be dissected in ways that the New Testament sources cannot. It's inherently an unfair dichotomy. So, Millett says, give us time to come to terms with and understand fully some of the implications of the revelations of the Restoration. Be as patient with us as everyone is (has to be) with Christianity. I didn't view him as saying that we are inventing our religion to make it conform to evangelical Christianity.

And even if his comment were somehow off-base or an improper capitulation, I will give Millett a pass on this every time. He has done too much for the Church -- and especially with the community of evangelicals -- for me not give him wide leeway in discussing theological niceties.

But I've loved hearing your take on his comments. Fantastic, thanks.

-Hunter

In a sense Millett is correct, we are indeed in th...

2009-11-13T09:00:00.369-07:00

In a sense Millett is correct, we are indeed in the "religion making business" if by that he means we help shape and forge an idea of individuality and community, infusing life with meaning and direction, etc. But it seems he tossed in that comment off the cuff and didn't fully explore what it could imply. So it came across as him saying we are in a market economy of religions and will simply adapt our product to market demands or something.

Yes, I remember the Millett interview well. His co...

2009-11-13T04:21:57.411-07:00

Yes, I remember the Millett interview well. His comment "We're in the religion making business," bothered me quite a bit. I'm sure the evangelicals used it as proof that it is a man-made religion. I would have thought that Prof. Millett would have used a better choice of words.

The part I was thinking of came around the 46:30 m...

2009-11-12T08:36:29.527-07:00

The part I was thinking of came around the 46:30 mark. Millett related an experience when he was invited to the Salt Lake Theological Seminary (which is essentially an anti-Mormon outfit that recently closed). They were discussing his book on the Mormon Jesus, if you will, and at the end they asked him: "Bob, what can we as Evangelicals do for our Mormon friends."

Millett: "And I said, Boy, I appreciate you asking that, I don't think I've ever been asked that. But I said, try this: Cut us a little slack, will ya? Give us a little time. We're in the religion making business and this takes time, it takes centuries. And trying to explain the faith, and articulate the faith, that doesn't come overnight. We've really only been about that for twenty or thirty years."

The implication here, to me, was that Mormons were "coming around" so to speak, and mainstreaming and trying to simply fit in as Christians. It overlooks what makes Mormonism Mormonism. Millett seemed to be trying to reassure Evangelical anti-Mormons that we were coming closer and closer to what they would find acceptable. Also, he overlooks the theological works of early apostles who worked to define the faith from the outset, like the Pratt brothers and so forth. Anyway, the answer just rankled me, and it was geared to give the impression that Mormonism is Christianity's misfit little brother or something rather than the restoration of the gospel.

Awesome, BHodges. Thanks. Lucky you. Tippett is...

2009-11-11T21:58:30.841-07:00

Awesome, BHodges. Thanks. Lucky you.

Tippett is an absolute gem. She is getting people talking about religion, that most forbidden of subjects.

I appreciate hearing the details of what you heard. Thanks.

(By the way, I didn't recall Millett's "capitulation" at the end of the interview and will go back and give it a listen.)

-Hunter

Oh, and she also spoke a bit about how people tend...

2009-11-11T10:17:54.640-07:00

Oh, and she also spoke a bit about how people tend to try and separate religion from the public sphere which leaves a good deal of who a person is and believes out of the direct conversation, which she thinks is unfortunate.

Hunter: She was in town to give the McMurrin Lect...

2009-11-11T10:15:45.177-07:00

Hunter:

She was in town to give the McMurrin Lecture on Religion and Culture for the U of U last night. Here's the info link:

http://tinyurl.com/y8kooqd

I searched for news coverage of the lecture and came up with nothing, though. I couldn't attend because of my Anthropology class. Before lunch she was a guest on RadioWest though. Listen here:

http://tinyurl.com/yl4hld7

Regarding Mormonism, during the lunch she talked a little about her interview with Millett, it was sparked because of Mitt Romney being in the news. Someone asked her why Romney's religion became a big deal when Harry Reid hasn't been similarly singled out. She noted that Harry Reid didn't run for president, and that he didn't announce his faith and so forth. She said the interview with Millett got positive feedback. I didn;t bring it up but I was disappointed by the end of the Millett podcast, especially when Millett related the story about an Evangelical meeting he attended where they asked him what they could do for Mormons. His response was something like "Be patient, give us time, we will get there." He made it seem as though Mormonism was some sort of wannabe Evangelical movement and I found it to be a very "unfortunate" answer. :)

She also talked a little about recent interfaith efforts that focus on service, which she says is different from earlier efforts when doctrine was discussed which often would lead to stalemates. She said recent trends involve working together on service projects and so forth.

Another student asked her about her seeming interest in the physical body. She talked a little about "body consciousness," how physical we are, and how she has been interested in soul and body, the dynamics and interplay,how culture and religion have tended to be too cerebral, etc. She said when a person is more aware of their own physicality they can become more aware of the physicality of others in the sense of compassion and so forth. She also talked a little about an upcoming episode where they discuss the cerebral cortex and child development, where researchers believe it requires a lot of play and activity for a child's mind to properly develop. No one brought up the Mormon concept of embodiment, which would have been interesting to talk about with her.

Thanks for this. I really enjoy Ms. Tippett's sho...

2009-11-11T09:40:40.533-07:00

Thanks for this. I really enjoy Ms. Tippett's show and was pleased to read a little more about her. I thought she did a great job interviewing Robert Millett a couple of years ago.

What was she doing in the heart of Mormondom? And what did she have to say, if anything, about Mormonism?

-Hunter