Comments on Life On Gold Plates: Committing Suicide to Get to the Telestial Kingdom...

I found this blog while researching where I had re...

2010-06-22T15:00:41.214-06:00

I found this blog while researching where I had read this "quote" of Joseph Smith. I remembered this "quote" while reading about the new "Avatar depression syndrome". Apparently there are a number of people who are depressed and having suicidal thoughts because they no longer want to deal with this horrible Earth life after seeing the glorious and harmonious life on Pandora.
(This article summarizes some of the comments:
http://theweek.com/article/index/105003/avatar-depression-syndrome

All views are welcome when shared respectfully. Us...

2010-04-13T21:31:59.031-06:00

All views are welcome when shared respectfully. Use a name or consistent pseudonym rather than "anonymous." Deletions of inflammatory posts will be noted, as in this instance. Please try to follow the guidelines next time.

Thanks, Old Wolf.

2009-09-30T08:05:09.520-06:00

Thanks, Old Wolf.

Coming late to the party after looking for verific...

2009-09-29T23:31:52.520-06:00

Coming late to the party after looking for verification of this quote, I acknowledge the diligence with which you have turned over every available stone to get at the truth thereof.

I suspect the general sentiment might be true on some level, but only for those who were unaware that there were something surpassing better to be obtained.

Thank you for your scholarship.

Come on, the Telestial kingdom can't be THAT bad! ...

2009-06-07T19:23:34.485-06:00

Come on, the Telestial kingdom can't be THAT bad! ;)

I guess my answer to you would depend on the circumstances one is living in at the time. Further, suicide itself is a very sensitive issue, and some may assume that the quote indicates that suicide will result in a Telestial resurrection. I think that alone should discourage use of the quote or sentiment.

I think that the debate about whether Joseph Smith...

2009-06-07T17:22:59.890-06:00

I think that the debate about whether Joseph Smith Jr. really said this quotation is a reasonable question. However, the quote itself is very, very true: if we could see the telestial kingdom in all its glory "which surpasseth understanding" we would be tempted to commit suicide.

Glad you liked it.

2009-02-15T16:50:00.000-07:00

Glad you liked it.

When all is said and done, this is fine work and s...

2009-02-15T09:16:00.000-07:00

When all is said and done, this is fine work and should be praised!

STEUSS! If I recall correctly, you were also appri...

2008-12-19T14:12:00.000-07:00

STEUSS!

If I recall correctly, you were also apprised of this quote etc. when I was initially investigating it. Do you recall what thread on the board this was discussed in?

I think Iceberg Slim means"well done Rabbi Shlomo"...

2008-12-19T13:50:00.000-07:00

I think Iceberg Slim means

"well done Rabbi Shlomo"

Shalom,

Sione

Well done B-funk.

2008-12-19T13:14:00.000-07:00

Well done B-funk.

I don't believe the Telestial Kingdom is a bad pla...

2008-12-18T13:53:00.000-07:00

I don't believe the Telestial Kingdom is a bad place. As section 76 says, "And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it." In other words, it appears to be pretty nice.

I personally disagree with citing the quote without mentioning its historically questionable origin.

Great insights. I would still like to believe, ho...

2008-12-18T12:53:00.000-07:00

Great insights. I would still like to believe, however, that the Lord has something "beyond our understanding" in store for his children in the Telestial Kingdom. I cannot think a merciful and loving God would doom a portion of his children to Lagoon, when Disneyland may be an option.

On a separate note, I just finished Millet's, "What Happened to the Cross?" (highly recommended). Bro. Millet speaks of the quotation briefly there also, but I think he may have just recycled his arguments from "The Origin and Destiny of Man."

Updated with one more reference to the suicide thi...

2008-12-18T09:02:00.000-07:00

Updated with one more reference to the suicide thing. Thanks to J. Stapley and Steven Harper.

This was always on my plate to identify or put to ...

2008-12-18T00:43:00.000-07:00

This was always on my plate to identify or put to rest. I'm glad I don't have to do the leg work now.

Several years back I debunked the Joseph Smith statement "I'll follow Emma to Hell...". I didn't write a damn thing down and now I can't remember.

Could you re-do my work on that please?

Big UP!

Sione

To say nothing of those who commit suicide and don...

2008-12-17T20:26:00.000-07:00

To say nothing of those who commit suicide and don't end up in the Telestial kingdom, of course.

You can't get to the telestial kingdom by committi...

2008-12-17T20:15:00.000-07:00

You can't get to the telestial kingdom by committing suicide - you have to go the spirit world first, and repent and "be redeemed through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God."

And "after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, [they] shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation." (D&C 138:58-59)

Justin: thanks for noticing Dahl. Holzapfel appear...

2008-12-17T13:21:00.000-07:00

Justin: thanks for noticing Dahl.

Holzapfel appears to note the remark in passing, and doesn't seem to give it much credence other than to generalize the feeling of it, in my view.

Unlike the previous references, Holzapfel appears ...

2008-12-17T12:30:00.000-07:00

Unlike the previous references, Holzapfel appears more reluctant to accept the statement at face value, calling it "apocryphal" and noting that it is third-hand.

To clarify: By "statement" are you referring to the "telestial kingdom" statement or to the statement recorded in Walker's diary? Holzapfel describes the "telestial kingdom" story as apocryphal, but he seems to accept the statement in Walker's diary.

A minor note: Larry Dahl is the author of the article, "The Vision of the Glories (D&C 76)," published in Studies in Scripture (rather than Millet and Jackson).

I, too, enjoy a good debunking. Thanks!

2008-12-16T17:31:00.000-07:00

I, too, enjoy a good debunking. Thanks!

Jstap, that is.

2008-12-16T10:43:00.000-07:00

Jstap, that is.

J Stape: I won't be reading Harper's book until af...

2008-12-16T10:37:00.000-07:00

J Stape: I won't be reading Harper's book until after Dec. 25. It hurts seeing a stack of Amazon.com boxes under the tree like that, it really does! Thanks for the heads up. When I get the info I'll certainly add it to this post.

Thanks for stopping in Ardis and rick. I agree, we do need a Mormon Snopes. The apologetic group SHIELDS runs something like it, but they carry too much baggage imo for people to want to check that out there. It needs to be an independent thing. I started one called "Mormon Twinkies" but stopped because I want to spend my blog time making posts for this site.

Nice write-up. I was aware of the Walker referenc...

2008-12-16T10:19:00.000-07:00

Nice write-up. I was aware of the Walker reference; but in reviewing Harper's latest D&C volume, I found another. I don't have the volume with me so can't get the precise citation, but in his section of D&C 76 he has a brief discussion of this bit of lore and indicates that a Lorin Farr recollection of something similar is in a holograph High Priests minute book, circa 1900 (he includes the full citation).

This came up in a youth class I taught a week ago....

2008-12-16T09:59:00.000-07:00

This came up in a youth class I taught a week ago. Good work. Thank you.

I doff my historical debunker's hat to you, BHodge...

2008-12-16T09:41:00.000-07:00

I doff my historical debunker's hat to you, BHodges. It is always helpful to chase down the permutations of a persistent but highly dubious/downright false folk belief. Not only do you alert people to the dubiousness of something they may never have questioned, but pulling everything together this way makes a handy reference for readers to return to when they inevitably dispute the belief the next time it is mentioned in Sunday School.

We need a Snopes-like database to keep track of posts like this.